This is in continuation with the earlier post.
I was thinking why cannot anyone file a case under the Atrocities Act against all those casteist blogs and discussions happening online….
Debating Reservations is a different from demeaning those who benefit from them.
Second thing I wanted to post here is a compelling paragraph from Prabhat Sinha in Claim On Nation:
“The premise behind reservation as a mechanism to of uplifting people is basically wrong one….It is not the disability of the dalits/oppressed but the disability of “Indian society” that necessitates reservation.
The correct premise behind the Constitutional reservation – that it is a countervailing measure by the state against the socio-cultural disability of Indian society to treat people from the untouchable/oppressed castes as its own. It is a mechanism to ensure that the “deserving people” from these oppressed castes get their due share because otherwise the deep entrenched socio-cultural prejudice will never let them have it as can be seen in the sectors where this mechanism does not exist. It is a mechanism with which the rights of certain sections of society are PROTECTED, because left to itself society is incapable of doing it.”
Anyone out there?
[Sorry I didnt know that comments options was closed here. REctified now. – 23 May 2004]
This is untrue. Reservation of any form in the education or in jobs provides un equality among the candidates appearing. Selection should be only based on performance in qualifying tests or exams and not on basis of caste and religion
i would like to coment angainst ur stand.
initally it is to be cleared that the reservation should be on the economic ground.
in mahabharat there is a example of vidur, who is from the lower cast and is still an advisor of the king. he had the required quallification of being there. that seat was not reserved for the backward person.
so it was on the merit that he achived that position. all the pro reservation people should relise this that merit can not stop any one from achiving his goal.
reservation is like begging.
come and face the compitation. dont cry and beg.
“Just Tell Me where and how “and i think all sectors should join in on this because the Medical students have taken a stand and the momentum has begun lets keep it going guys.
As i sit here i am furious about the way things are going and how India is shaping up . Corrupt politicians who are really driving India to hell.
Till this i was convinced that no one cares but i am really glad that the medicos have the taken the lead but for the rest like us we want to help but we just dont know how so please tell us ……I think the real problem is organizing a mass drive
Indian,
Reservation is a way of redressing the “unquality” that is right now dogging the academics. If everthing were right, how will you explain the depressingly small amount of non-brahmanical students in all institutes of higher learning?
kamlakar,
Reservation in NEVER begging. It’s asking for the rightful share that has right now been usurped by a small section of Indians. I’m not sure that Mahabharat can be a universal scale for analysis…..but still, in the whole of Mahabharat of scores of people it’s just one single Vidur who gets that position….and the “required qualification” you suggest could be his paternal bloodline, not exactly merit.
Stanley,
You should on the other hand join the mass drive for reservation and let your fury out to save India from hell.
the government is making a mockery of the constitution. Whenever an oppurtunity arises they make an Amendment to the constitution to suit them, recent cases are…Demolition drive in delhi against illegal properties and the office Of Profit Controversy. These ppl should be hanged in front of the entire nation or paraded naked let them see what India really needs apart from their Dirty caste politics
Every human being is born equal and shall be treated irrespective of caste, creed, religion and race. This single sentence forms the very groundwork of India’s identity as a country. It is this very reason which has made me proud to be called by the name Indian. Unfortunately, the turn of events in the past few weeks has left me desolate on India’s future.
The introduction of the reservation system is the biggest political stunt of deception that has been witnessed by the country. The very purpose of having colleges is to spread education and create individuals who will one day make the country proud. But, if caste is made a basis for admissions to these colleges, it is not being made sure whether the student is actually eligible for the seat. Money and caste are things decided by destiny herself and shouldn’t be made a weapon to destroy the unity and integrity of a great country such as ours.
Instead common exams with equal priority towards each and every class of society, where wealth and creed are not made parameters for eligibility, should be conducted. If by any chance the allegedly “backward castes†feels dominated, the govt. could provide special coaching classes at meager rates for them. Also, special loans at lower rates could be devised.
In fact I am completely against the very term ‘backward’. The steady progress of India has made sure that every Indian is given an opportunity for development. It is only the attitude which proves to be a distinguishing factor. The position a person has in society is decided by his determination to succeed in life. I have seen people without hands, eyes, legs, etc. doing jobs without blaming the govt. or fate. The biggest curse of today is the easy life the youth endeavor for. Nobody is ready to work hard and earn name and fame; instead people are busy trying to get the same through illicit means. When Gandhiji introduced the term ‘harijan’ he did so to make us realize that we are after all children of God.
When India started her venture as an independent country, there were a few sects of people who had suffered, more than others, the cruelty of the British rule. If the reservation system had been introduced 50 years ago I would have surely understood. But at this point of time it is more of a way to demean the sects. The impression created is that they do not possess the potential to grow on their own. The people tend to take the name ‘o.b.c’ as a privilege and exploit it. This I fear could lead to the annihilation of India as a country.
What disturbs me the most is the fact that neither Prime minister nor the President, who are by all means respectable and erudite, retaliates against this outrageous act. It is their prime duty to safeguard the future of the country. It is shameful to imagine that a few political bigwigs are able to subjugate the nation’s future towards the end of its glorious innings as a utopian country. If it only takes a handful of people to overturn the ideals of the biggest democratic country in the world, what is the use of a government and judiciary? What is the use of writing the word ‘equality’ in a book, when neither the ministers nor the citizens know what it means?
The introduction of the reservation system will help safeguard only vested interests and lead to the second partition of India. When people haven’t begun to forget the pain and suffering of the first one, why is the govt. adamant on poking us with a second one? When people are forgetting castes and creeds, why does the Govt. insist on people identifying themselves with their sects? Does the govt. feel there is a difference in the potential and intelligence of individuals? I fear that this stunt has been instigated by a third party and will eventually lead to civil war.
We should retaliate and spread awareness. Each and every individual is duty bound to make sure his/her country is not lead to destruction. Each one of us should contribute by any means possible. It could be by making people understand the defects of reservation, by word of mouth, e-mails, posters, etc.
Remember, united we stand, divided we fall.
you talk about filing a case under atrocities act against castist blogs and discussions. I agree but Why do you want somebody to do it? Why can’t you do it yourself?Talking and writing on such issues is much easier than actually doing something concrete. So get started for the action. Do not wait for somebody to take the initiative.
Vivek,
I agree with some of the statements you have made in the comment, but agree perhaps in a contrary sentiment. I agree that every human being is born equal and *should have been* treated irrespective of caste, creed, religion and race. Unfortunately, the turn of events in the past few decades prove that there is a big distance between “shall be” and ” should’ve been”.
The very purpose of having colleges is to spread education and create individuals who will one day make the country proud. But caste should not be made a basis for admissions to these colleges, as it is right now. It some how appears that all students who are eligible for the seat, in some “miraculous” way become uppercaste. In today’s common exams, wealth and creed are made parameters for eligibility, with only those who can afford expensive tuitions and high cultural capital on the shoulders getting through them.
The sections of people, whom you refer to as suffering in the past [I would say, not because of the cruelty of the British rule, but because of the caste system prevailed here much in advance] are still suffering. Some of them would’ve got upward mobility, perhaps due to the reservation system that had been introduced 50 years ago, but much more needs to be done. It is so, not because they do not possess the potential to grow on their own, but because, every attempt made towards that is stifled and killed. Imagine, if I’m not allowed to drink from the same cup as others’, if I’m not allowed to wear a new pair of sandals I’ve bought, how am I suppossed to even think of applying for IITs and IIMs? And all these are happening, not in the past, but in the very 21st century.
What is the use of writing the word ‘equality’ in a book, when neither the ministers nor the citizens know what it means? Equality is not a pre-given, already existing status, as some Indian citizens seem to imagine. It is an ideal to be achieved through various affirmative actions, not only from the State, but also from each individual.
We should retaliate and spread awareness for reservation. Each and every individual is duty bound to make sure that his/her country is not leading towards destruction. Each one of us should contribute by any means possible. It could be by making people understand the merits of reservation, by word of mouth, e-mails, posters, etc.
Remember, united we stand, divided we fall.
Sam,
Yes, I understand that activism is much more difficult and risky than blogging.
That a PIL should be filed against casteist blogs was a response out of the outrage I felt after reading some of them, not a thought plan of action. The immense amount of courage needed to initiate something like that was dwindiling each time I see the enormous support the Anti-reservation movement gets from the public as well as the government. But seeing comments like yours, I’m more encouraged to think on those lines. Hope there are more like these.
But, do I straight ahead go and file a case right now?
With all my guilt complex and ignominy, hiding myself behind them, let me confess that it requires a totally different valour and courage than the silly one I possess. Protest, processions, picketing, slogeneering………..I’m there for you. I know this is escapism…..but let me be frank about it.
well, all of us talk big things and never leave a chance to sermonise through whatever means possible(writings, lecturing so on and so forth).We often use gingoistic language while writing… such as “each and every individual is duty bound to make sure that the country is not leading towards destrction” (your words) Tell me ,in what possible way (s) are you contributing towards the progress of the country? I think, primarily, a great deal of introspection is required in this direction to be able to speak/sermonise and ignite the minds of todays youth. Lets not adhere to escapism…. rather begin changing ourselves towards more noble causes.
For sure the reservation policy is drifting us from our so called fundamental right of equality.
Am not against the upliftment of the downtrodden but the path chosen doesn’t seem to be accepatable.
If and all the government truly want to promote this class of people and help them grow in the society they should make adequate provision for free basic education and this also not just based on caste but their social status.
Apart from this government can make provisions for free seats in all sorts of coachings and can benefit the involved instituions by giving tax benefit and can also provide govt owned premises to be used after office hours for the purpose of running free clases for the needy .
its not just giving them an opportunity to be pulled up at par with the general level of talent and competetive level.
then ofcoure they can be left to a fair selection method of competion where they could be judged by merit.
socialjustice.in
Dear Friends
Say YES to RESERVATION in Higher Education
Sign in the petition online NOW:
.petitiononline.com/obc2006/petition.html
Kindly forward this Email to all your OBCs/SCs/STs – Bahujan friends.
With regards
ARUL
democracycentre@yahoo.co.in
Visit -socialjustice.in
Centre for Democracy and Development,
Post Box No: 6075, Chennai-34, India.
Sam,
Frankly, I do not possess anything colourful to showcase as my contribution to “progress of the country”, other than my own routine life and existence in the country.
But I guess there should be some space in activism for those who can only shout slogans and hoot. And it does matter, especially in issues where those less privileged than me take the lead and I decide to only follow them. Igniting the minds of todays youth is not my aim; I see them capable of doing it themselves. That is not the role I see for myself. This decision, let me state it here, *is* also an outcome of introspection, not mere escapism.
Just a correction:
I never want myself to be seen sermonizing. I didnt use use gingoistic language while writing on *my own*……I was using the words some one else used to reply in the same language. I guess, it’s more sarcastic than literal.
Arul,
Thank You for the link Centre for Democracy and Development. It’s added to the list in Reservation Debate page. But I guess there is some problem with the Online Petition right now. It’s not available when I tried.
Shweta Srivastava,
I repeat that we are not talking here about “the upliftment of the downtrodden”, and promote a “class of people and help them grow in the society”. We are talking here about some fundamental rights that are being denied. Offering something free as a grace is not the answer. Reservation is a way of redressing the inquality that is right now prevalent. Hope you read the post once again.
Smrti … It is not good to use the peoples emotions for your gain…
you are trying to debate in a AD-SPONSORED BLOG for which you are paid .
It is OK if you have enabled ads for a tech blog for your personal blog… but it looks very disturbing seeing ppl like you using cheap tricks for your gains and publishing a topic thats controversial and counting the hits.
you are no less than the politicians who are using reservation for their benefits….
If you really want to debate on this topic then turn off your ads and let the debate happen…
to all the others….I suggest to refrain from visiting these sites and posting your views since these ppl are making fools of you…(i.e both pro and anti)…Anyways its upto you to decide….
Praveen Says:
May 29th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
Smrti … It is not good to use the peoples emotions for your gain…
you are trying to debate in a AD-SPONSORED BLOG for which you are paid .
It is OK if you have enabled ads for a tech blog for your personal blog…
———————————-
Praveen,
Smrti.net is indeed my personal blog and the views expressed here are my individual opinions.
I do not understand why google ads on my blog should prevent me from taking a stand on the reservation issue and debating it!
If you had said that educational institutes are paid/subsidized by the government and hence should be more socially conscious…….I would’ve understood.
I wish there were better ways to discourage a pro-reservation debate.
I have not said anything regarding reservation nor would i …
If You really are Pro-Reservationist and do want to do something for the reservation then you could well do it WITHOUT ADS…
You might be really supporting the pro-reservation but how can one beleive that you do support it truly unless u do it without any of your personal gains.
I always go through the blogs both pro / anti but have not posted my views as i feel that both have their pros and cons…
Well anyways…I apologise if you feel that I have done any mistake…
Let stop this here…
Praveen,
I got an impression that you are anti-reservation by reading the statement you made: “you are no less than the politicians who are using reservation for their benefits…”.
But if you havnt made up your mind yet and still think that both sides have pros and cons, well, sorry for misjudging you. I would also request you to go through some of the links I’ve given in the updated Reservation Debate page if you want to get more insight into the pro-reservation arguments.
Well, on mutual agreement let’s stop the Ads debate here…
well, by igniting the minds of todays youth , I meant inspiring your fellow beings by your true actions and behaviours. Ofcourse youth of today is educated and has a mind of its own but the genuinity of supporting social causes and issue is dead in most lest there wouldn’t have been supporters of ‘anti-reservation’. Today’s youth needs awareness about political and social causes…this is referred by me as ‘igniting the minds of the youth’. Anyways, you miserably failed to understand this..
I also see that you contradict your own views. Please check out in one of your messages where you have said something like, I quote your words..
“With all my guilt complex and ignominy, hiding myself behind them, let me confess that it requires a totally different valour and courage than the silly one I possess. Protest, processions, picketing, slogeneering………..I’m there for you. I know this is escapism…..but let me be frank about it.
You have used the word escapism and now you say that your decisions needn’t be understood as ‘escapism’.
shouting slogans and hooting has become common. I have seen my own friends indulging in this act for the sake of it. There are more active and concrete steps that we can take. A not so privileged individual also thinks of taking more concrete steps today to support a social cause like this than adopting methods like slogans and hooting. I think you must rethink on this carefully..
Going out in the world and supporting a cause like “pro-reservation” doesn’t require any courage or valour. What it requires is genuineness to do something for the issue. I completely agree with what praveen said about you. People like you want to remain behind the curtains and do thinks like ‘writing in blogs’ for the sake of money. Come out of your world and do something that’ll make all of us proud…
Sam,
I dont think the support for anti reservation comes from lack of genuine social understanding on part of today’s youth. Supporters of anti-reservation does understand society the way they want or else they would not have come out on the streets for what they think is right. That means they are aware of political and social causes, but perhaps in a way I do not agree with.
And about escapism: I’m just copy-pasting the two sentences I wrote and you can see for yourself:
1. I know this [lack of courage to file a PIL] is escapism…..but let me be frank about it.
2. This decision [not to lead the dalits and OBCs, but to follow them] let me state it here, *is* also an outcome of introspection, not mere escapism.
Hope you read the word “mere” in the second statement.
And my reference to the need for courage and valour was not in connection with going out in the world and supporting a cause like pro-reservation. It was for filing a PIL. But mind you, even the former does require courage, and I’m happy that I do possess that in myself.
About me minting money out of my blog.
Praveen had asked me to stop talking about it……but well, I’m forced to state this here.
Anybody who knows about how Google pays for adsense words, would know that a discussion on reservation in India, is the last topic that would fetch you money. If you have noticed the ads that are there in this page [for example, right now they are Start a Blog, Jobs at Top Companies, Blog Software, ICICI Bank Home Loans] are not relevant to the content provided and hence google doesnt accept that as valid enough to be paid. If money making was my intention, I would’ve as well started something on Fitness or Mortgage or Arthritis. So let’s please stop such cheap accusations.
Sam, I hope you understand things with more depth and realize that activism is in different degress and planes. Each individual has a right to decide how he/she is to take part in it. Now I tell you what I told Praveen, if you do have porblems with reservation, come out and state them clearly…..rather than covering up your opposition in personal attacks.
My sincere advise to you is that you must begin writing things clearly. You write something and later on you say that you meant something else. This doesnt work as scores of people are going through your site. Try being responsible while posting on sensitive issues than defending yourself.
As you say, “Supporters of anti-reservation do understand society the way they want or else they would not have come out on the streets for what they think is right”. ( I would again say that they are blindfolded and lack a genuine understanding of the issues)
This is precisely why there is a need to make them understand that what they think is their ‘right’, is nothing but mere selfishness and not in the interest of some sections of the society. I myself was under illusion that some of my friends would come out and support pro-reservation rallies but unfortunately they didnt. I had to sit with them and make them understand the sensitiveness of the issue and today instead of being part of anti-reservation, they are with me in pro-reservation rallies. Now here is an example of how the youth of today, though educated, doesnt have the capacity to understand these issues sensitively. But given the right direction and awareness, they do change themselves.
well, after all, blogs are meant for debating and one should be prepared and matured enough to handle debates rather than assuming that someone is covering up opposition in personal attacks.
All am saying is that why do you expect somebody to file PIL against some blogs? My question is why dont you take the initiative? I know your response, you would say that filing PIL requires lot of courage and valour and you HAVE GOT ONLY A SILLY ONE . Also it seems that you are happy posting something on your blog about the issue but with absolutely no maturity to handle debates.
Sam,
Thanks for all that sermonizing and attempts to ignite my mind.
Pro-reservation SOBs do not have a single valid point as to why this shit has to be passed. All they can think of is the “social injustic” their ancestors had faced. Oh c’mon! This is 2006. No one is actually discriminated on their caste. Even I have a few OBC friends and treat them exactly as I would treat other friends. I don’t classify my friends on their castes. This social injustice thing is just an excuse for all you incompetent OBCs (by this I don’t mean all OBCs, I am only pointing out these stupid sons of bitches politicians and Pro-reservation moefuckers). Instead of giving economical support to the ECONOMICALLY backward people, this shitty government is reserving seats for idiots who just don’t want to work hard.
And those pro-quota bastards think thats their rights. What a joke. Right, ha! See listen, if you guys think there are a lotta successfull OBC people, then why don’t you dickheads take inspiration from them. They did not need a shit called reservation. Would any of you like to be treated by a doctor who doesn’t even know what a stethoscope is.
This reservation is totally unfair for all those people who actually work hard. Do any of you bastards actually know how much we work hard to get into these elite institutes. Some of us study as much as 16 hours a day. We spend so many sleepless nights studying and studying so that we might have a chance to fulfill our dream. You guys think merit has no value, huh. Thats beacuse none of you have ever really worked that hard to get good marks. You just take the shelter of reservations. Merit doesn’t come so easily. You have to work for it. And some people even after working so damn hard still can’t make it to the branch they aspired for and have to watch people like you who waste their time all day getting thru. Man, so much hard work not paying off just because he is not born to a so-called backward class.
And do any of you punks know that those sobs who get into IITs, IIMs, AIIMS and other elite institutions NEVER, repeat NEVER succeed but only prevent deservers from succeeding. They always fail. While other students pay attention in their classes, they most probably would be bunking classes, or even if they were attending, they would be dozzing off. Ha, to think, they study in elite institutes.
For more than 50 mother fucking years you guys had your chance to improve. But since you still aren’t improving, they have decided to raise reservations. You greedy bastards can’t even oppose this fucking movement, this movement against injustice. I mean think of those people, how hard they work. Studying isn’t an easy job you know. Can’t you sobs think rationally. You guys want equality huh. Give me examples of places where you are being refused to be admitted just because you are from backward classes. I mean, you guys are getting reservations like 22.5 as of now. Isn’t that enough for you mother fuckers. Now they want 50% reservations for you. Do any of you guys know what IITs, IIMs, AIIMS are. They have the brightest students in India. Now this raise in quota is going to pollute them. I have no objections against any OBC guy. In fact, i would like to see them develop too. But this isn’t the way. You guys want to be in those institutes, how about working for it. Infact, I would like an India where there is absolutely no discrimination on caste. Trying to develop you people thru castes based quota, you guys are now becoming forward classes. I personally don’t think I have any advantage being in a so called upper caste.
Just face it, you guys(pro-quotas, not OBCs) simply don’t have what it take to even be like us. You guys will remain sweepers and shoe-polishers even if there is a 100% percent reservation. You guys would sweep the classrooms and polish someones shoe even while the class is in session. And please be very clear, I AM NOT AGAINST ANY OBC, BUT I SURE IN HELL HATE EVERY PRO-QUOTA BASTARD AND ALL THESE POLITICIANS WHO ARE NOTHING LESS THAN THOSE BRITISHERS WHO OPRESSED US FOR YEARS.
Aniket,
I refuse to use the language you have used here. But let me state my views.
1. Based on what evidence do you say that caste does not exist in 2006. Do you see caste in matrimonials columns of everyday newspaers? Do you see caste in all of those surnames used in your daily conversations? Do you see caste in the slogan shouted by antireservation protestors “kala- Gora ek samaan/nahi chalega nahi chalega”? Do you see caste in their ‘new’ ways of protests like sweeping? Do you see caste in the posters like Arjun Singh College of Engineering giving out Degrees in Boot Polishing? Do you see caste when you state that all those quota students invariably fail in IITs, IIMs and AIIMS? If you dont, well you dont see cast in your own life.
2. It is not that reservation gives away the seats free…it only ensures that the meritorious from the oppressed castes get their due share, which is not happening otherwise. It is indeed their right, when they have spent so much time to study hard and aspire for a seat in IIT, but see that they are all ‘reserved’ for the uppercaste.
aniket
Its unfortunate that you dont see discrimination on the basis of caste in 2006…..hights of ignorance I must say. May be you need to get your knowledge abrest in this regard. Don’t treat these people as ignorant. The only sad thing is that they have not been given the right kind of opportunities to show their potential. Nevertheless, there have been people who have come up and made a significant contribution to the society. Given a chance they do exel in studies , professions and many other things. This is what the whole issue is about…to give them opportunities and not underestimate them or make them feel unwanted. Atleast they do not use language like you do while claiming for their rights. For once, stop assuming things about others and let me also tell you that studying in elite institutes is not a privilege of a few like you.
Click,
Thanks for the comment. I agree with you that the whole issue is about providing opportunities.
Hi All,
Visited this site after some time but wanted to post a few comments..
1) Aniket, I was a bit taken aback by the language you have used.
2) Please dont use word descrimination when it comes to the context of same case marriages because it is just that people of same caste have same practices of day to day life so it would be easier for families to get togather. (It is not the Situation where some ppl are Opressed). Same Caste marriages hold priority across all castes irrespectively. Does a OBC of one case want to marry Another caste OBC ??
3)I would never like or want to compete at the same level with an underprivileged . Under privileged should always be given some sort of relaxation in terms of marks or even reservation.
What percentage of Reservation??? That also does not matter…
BUT ONE POINT TO NOTE HERE….
[Below is a situation which i came across in a TV Show]
A Chief Secretary in One Of the State Governments of India [would not like to name] is from a low caste and under privileged section of society but because of his hardwork determinitation and the facility of reservation has reached to this height of success. [Hats off to this person for his acheivement]
Now the real issue… He was asked if his son should be eligible for Reservation and he could not affirmly say NO to it…
I was just wondering that people like these who are now a privileged lot start using reservation then how can the underprivileged ppl of his community compete with these people. It is again like the same old problem.
Now we have 2 sections of people in the Low Caste and OBC sections.
One group who are privileged and one group who are under privileged.
it is a situation where in the Privileged ppl in the Low Castes have all access to the facilities but still availing reservations thus preventing the underprivileged people of their own section.
Is it not true that the Lower Caste Privileged Section are doing the same mistake that the Upper Caste people Once did…
I feel that reservations are needed but I wonder if there could be a system that could see how it would reach for the persons that it is intended for.
I personally feel that reservations are needed but should not intended for privileged sections of the society irrespective of their caste.
Praveen,
I agree that reservation policies should be rethought to accomodate many other disadvantaged sections. But I also dont think it’s time to stop reservation for the upwardly mobile among the disadvantaged. This is because I dont see the *emerging* middle class in these sections still on par with third or fourth generation middle class of the uppercastes. Perhaps there should be a system where their mobility is taken into consideration. The affirmative plans developed by Yogendra Yadav and Satish Deshpande [that is listed in the page “Reservation Debate” in this blog] is to be noted in this regard. I’m sad that there wasnt many discussions on such new possibilities. I’m waiting for debates and critiques of the same.
Hi All,
Aniket’s language is nothing but the frustration gathered from failing in oppressing backward classes. As more and more SC, ST and OBC’s start contributing the mainstream this frustration is bound to grow and come in face of society in various forms. This time it is in form of anti quota protest.
Yesterday I came across TV news where a Groom from backward classes (some village, which is not relevant. After all 70 % India lives in villages) was asked to dismount from a horse in his ‘Barat’. When the elders from his community tried to mediate, the whole community was punished with ‘Hukka Pani Band’. Yes my friend Aniket we are living in 2006.
The question is how will we ensure that this grooms son will be able to secure a job when he grows old. The financial status of his family simply does not have any relevance here, nor does it matters what facilities will be available to his child.
The points I want to raise here:
1. Reservations are NOT ‘Garibi Hatao’ Plan.
The argument given by anti-reservation people that ‘Reservation should be given on economic grounds’ simply do not hold any ground. It simply do not matter if the person discriminated is rich or poor. I also want to point here to the example provided by Praveen, I am quoting him…
“A Chief Secretary in One Of the State Governments of India [would not like to name] is from a low caste and under privileged section of society but because of his hard work determination and the facility of reservation has reached to this height of success. [Hats off to this person for his achievement]
Now the real issue… He was asked if his son should be eligible for Reservation and he could not affirmly say NO to it……. ”
Once again… It really does not matter weather a person is rich or poor, or what position his father holds. When son of this Chief Secretary goes in search of job there is no guarantee that his son will not be discriminated against on basis of caste. Yes he needs reservation.
2. Products of quota are meritorious.
One fact that no one can deny is that in India we have lots of Private Colleges (Engineering or Medical or whatever…) and the admission to this colleges close at very low percentage. These admissions close at alarmingly lower percentage than that for reserved seats in Govt. College.
Hence it is not only insane to say that the products of reservations are not meritorious.
Can any one tell me how will he find out that when in hospital how will you find out if the doctor treating you is a product of reserved seat (got admission with 85%) or a product of private college (got admission with 80%). Who is meritorious here???
Its a baseless argument that product of quota are not meritorious.
This war has been there for centuries now, right from the times of Buddha. And will remain to stay for centuries, unless Hindu religious folds review its holy scriptures like Puranas and Smruties, which are the source of dividing India on basis of castes.
Asit,
Thanks for the comment. I agree with you on this.
Why we all fail to understand is, all this reservation thing is IN because we are calling ourselves very patriotic to the core but we all fail when this comes to religion, though we would love everyone to drink from the same well, its not the scenario in all our villages, if we all look back at the religious helm of our personel lives, we are all idolators, can give sanctity to the idol in the corner and the trees that surround us all the time, but we seldom give a damn about the scavengers and downtrodden people of our society. The real cause undetlying this problem is our HINDU regligion which is hampering our progress and everything. Not a month passes with a dalit paraded naked in the streets of INDIA, so where are the people when this happens???? its never about feeling SORRY for the so called backward communities but its about time we shed our RELIGION coat and get ahead without any prejudice towards ANYONE, In the end DEMOCRACY HAS A SHOW, ITS OF THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE,Its about the sweat that we shed to elect, nominate ,a RESPONSIBLE Government.MORE POWER,MORE AUTHORITY,MAJORITY RULES
Hi all, I am working on launching an online news paper .. and we are looking for writer/contrubutors who are not slave of their prejudices against so called lower cast. we would be happy if you would be willing to contribute to our news paper.
please contact if if you are interested please email me : amityadav at gmail dot com.
Regards
Amit
Hi ALL,
May be this is my last post in this blog…and may be that i will not be comming back here again.
All the posts in this blog belong to blind pro-reservation.
None of you are interested to discuss the actual problem …
Just ask a question to yourself if you were ever oppressed or not given asome opportunity for being a OBC …
I dont think so … If you have not been discriminated on CASTE then why should you be entitled to reservation ..
Its true that there exists caste discrimination in villages… Then OK let the Discriminated ppl have the reservation not all from the same caste…
I have friends who are SC’s also and we are all so close that we do have food in their house also…
There is hardly any discrimination in the towns and cities…
Anyways … I will never come to this blog because the thoughts of ppl like you are selfish…
I do not agree to any of the below points
1. Reservations are NOT ‘Garibi Hatao’ Plan. > Mind you none of the Current Private sector Jobs ever ask for the Caste of the candidate..
How can you say that he would be discriminated…
… Have you ever been discriminated …?? Be true to yourself
3. Its a baseless argument that product of quota are not meritorious.
>> The Issue is not of the End Result of QUOTA
— The Real Issue is why Should Quotas be there and Who Should Avail them..
4. holy scriptures like Puranas and Smruties, which are the source of dividing India on basis of castes.
>> Dont make such statements without checking the facts….
— The Vedas never Specified anything of CASTE…It was of Varnas…
— Even the Holy Books specified that a Brahman or a Vaishya or a Kshatriya is So because of his job but not by his birth.
Any ways one last point …. I Am an OBC myself…
Also dont post anything addressing me as i will not be visiting this blog…
Bye all
http://www.emotionalzombie.blogspot.com/
No! Let’s join the self-proclaimed snobs protesting with slogans “Remember your placeâ€Â, polishing shoes and cleaning premises? Let’s pretend not to see it at all! Damn Reservations!
BEING A STUDENT MYSELF I WANT TO MAKE ONE THING CLEAR THAT WHY GIVE SEATS ON THE BASIS OF CASTE ,CREED ETC .WE ALL ARE INDIANS AND THE RIGHTS GIVEN TO US ARE THE SAME SO WHY INEQUALITY ON THE BASIS OF RESERVATIONS. BY GIVING A STUDENT A RESERVED SEAT U ARE DEPRIVING ANOTHER STUDENT FROM THAT SEAT,WHICH HE DESERVES .ALL WORK THE SAME,ALL PUT IN HARD WORK,ALL PARENTS HAVE THE SAME EXPECTATIONS FROM THEIR CHILDREN THEN WHY GIVE SEATS ON THE BASIS OF RESERVATIONS AND NOT ON THE BASIS OF MERITS.50 YEARS WHERE GIVEN TO RESERVATION SYSTEM BUT INSTEAD OF REDUCING THE PERCENTAGE SOME POLITICAL PARTIES ARE ADAMENT ON INCRESING THE PERCENTAGE OF RESERVATION.I NEED TO ASK THE QUESTION WHY ;JUST FOR THAT FEW AMOUNT OF VOTES AND WHAT ABOUT THOSE STUDENTS WHO COMMITE SUCIDES AND GO INTO DEPPRESSION WHO DO NOT GET ADMISSIONS ONLY DUE TO RESERVATION EVEN AFTER SCORING WELL .IS VOTES IMPORTENT OR THE CAREERS OF THOSE STUDENTS IN WHOSE HANDS THE FUTURE OF INDIA LIES.THIS IS A QUESTION THAT WE ALL NEED TO ASK OURSELVES.
please give link to the earlier post also here.
guys i will invent new religion called equalism n our god is sun moon n stars.a group of 20 frens of mine will follow some of my preachings…So what is the moral of the story, now even my religion becomes minority…can the government give reservation 2 my religion also…..I dont understand,on the basis of whom we worship again we r divided
Hello Smriti,
U r supportin Reservation based on caste.. ! So you want your castes should be uplifted.. ! India is Known for its unity. No more caste based reservation.. !
Give reservation based on the economy , not based upon caste. See money and wealth is not permanent, a person may be poor today, be rich tomorrow so we can’t say a lower caste person will be always POOR.. !… Think a while and post.. !
Today our chief justice , some ministers, some business mans.. are from obc’s , do their children needs reservation… ? Do crorepathi’s need reservation ? If these ppl get reservations, they those who really poor will not be benefited,, !!
Stop Reservation based on CASTE.. ! supportin castism is equalent to terrorism.. remember that,.. !
Can you tell me why the creamy layer of SC ST are given reservation and deprived layer of general category are not given reservation????
Now, smriti, let me ask you a direct question. Do you think the rich who belong to the so called OPPRESSED classes deserved to be called so? Dont you think reservation on a caste basis is like encouraging a second rate or third rate? Once we encourage the second rate and the third rate, we are lost. And no nation can ever dream of becoming a super power if it encourages a second rate and third rate in to its system. Reservations are meant to be ended some day. It cant be allowed forever. A BC/ OBC/SC/ ST student getting negative marks (below 0) gets admission (free seat) for 4 year engineering course. Where as an OTHER class (OC) student getting 60 – 70% marks cant even make it to atleast a third grade collage . He should secure atleast 95% marks to get a free seat in the general quota. Dont you think the reservation system invariably produce a THIRD RATE talent? The preamble of constitution of india mentions the RIGHT to Equality as one of the Fundamental Rights granted to people of India. Reservation system is nothing but to abuse this right. Ironically the true meaning of EQUALITY is lost. And what you have analyzed is totally crap.
@Ashwin Reddy
MERIT CAN BE CONSIDERED ONLY WHEN THERE IS EQUALITY.2ND RATE???????????3RD RATE????????
LETS TAKE AN EXAMPLE-:
1000yrs ago, castes were created and continued till now. And due to this people from backward castes were ill treated and exploited to the point of UNTOUCHABILITY which still exists now. THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED INSIDE EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS NOR WERE THEY PART OF THE MAINSTREAM.FOR example IF A PERSON IS CRUELLY ILL TREATED AND BADLY EXPLOITED AND RENDERED UNTOUCHABLE, then that person obviously lags behind in the race of success and better life style as he never was allowed to get education nor was he allowed to enter the temple and certain many such restrictions imposed on him. Then how could he give better life to his children. Obviously he will fail to do so coz if you spend your lifetime toiling hard for other people for negligible wages and huge debt. So his children also had to face the same problem and later on his grandchildren faced the same discrimination by the society and this cycle continued for many generations of that family. CONTINUOUS DISCRIMINATION AND ILL TREATMENT TO THE SAME FAMILY FOR MANY GENERATIONS WOULD DEFINITELY OBVIOUSLY MAKE THEM BACKWARD AND CREATE A HUGE GAP BETWEEN THEM AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.SO OBVIOUSLY THEY WOULD BE POOR AND BACKWARD AND BE CUT OFF FROM THE MAINSTREAM OF SOCIETY BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER KNOWN WHAT IS IT TO HAVE A LIFE WITH THE KIND OF BENEFITS THAT OTHE’s enjoy.
SO SUDDENLY ONE DAY THAT DISCRIMINATION IS MADE ILLEGAL BY LAW BUT STILL IT REMAINED IN PEOPLE’S PSYCHE.AND THEN THE CURRENT GENERATION OF THAT FAMILY ARE TOLD THAT DISCRIMINATION IS ILLEGAL NOW BY LAW.AND THAT NOW THEY CAN COMPETE WITH OTHERS.BUT HOW WOULD THEY COMPETE AS THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN PROVIDED WITH THE KIND OF FACILITIES THAT THERE OTHER COMPETITORS HAD.OBVIOUSLY THEY WOULD LAG BEHIND BECAUSE THEY NEVER HAD THE FACILITY WHICH OTHERS HAD NOT ONLY FINANCIALLY BUT ALSO SOCIALLY.SO THE EQUALITY GIVEN TO THEM NOW IS MEANINGLESS BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER RECEIVED GOOD TREATMENT OR EDUCATION EARLIER AND ARE STRUGGLING HARD FOR JUST TWO SQUARE MEALS.SO THIS EQUALITY MEANT NOTHING TO THEM EVEN TO THE BRIGHTEST OF THEIR LOT BECAUSE THEY WERE BUSY STRUGGLING FOR BASIC AMMENITIES.SO THEY LAG BEHIND INSPITE OF THE EQUALITY GIVEN BECAUSE A HISTORY OF DISCRIMINATION HAS MADE THEM CRIPPLED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE EQUALITY.AS 1000yrs of discrimination has made the family so poor and cut off from the mainstream that in spite of the equality given by law they cannot avail it. SO FOR THEIR BENEFIT SPECIAL CHANCES WERE GIVEN TO BRING THAT FAMILY INTO MAINSTREAM and some members of that family struggled hard and made only 1 of their son educated now. But still he could not go far as the social barriers still existed and alone he could not go far due to the poverty and social backwardness that still existed in his family. SO TO MAKE SURE THAT IF SOME MEMBERS OF THAT FAMILY JOIN THE MAINSTREAM THEN MAYBE THEY CAN BE UPLIFTED.SO SPECIAL PROVISIONS WERE MADE TILL MAXIMUM MEMBERS OF THAT FAMILY COME FORWARD AND JOIN THE MAINSTREAM.AND WHEN MAXIMUM MEMBERS JOIN THE MAINSTREAM THEN THAT SPECIAL PROVISION WOULD BE CUT OFF.
WOULD YOU GRUDGE THE FAMILY FOR THE SPECIAL CHANCES IT GOT SO THAT THE FAMILY OVERCOMES THE SOCIAL HANDICAP AND ECONOMIC POVERTY?
OF COURSE THERE ARE POOR PEOPLE FROM GENERAL CATEGORY BUT THEY ARE ONLY ECONOMICALLY POOR BUT SOCIALLY THEY ARE AT PAR WITH SOCIETY.BUT THE BACKWARD CASTES PEOPLE ARE BOTH SOCIALLY AND ECONOMICALLY DEPRIVED.
AND THE RICH PEOPLE FROM BACKWARD CASTE YOU ARE TALKING ARE VERY FEW.A MAJORITY OF THEM ARE STILL LIVING BELOW POVERTY.WE ARE LIVING IN A FREE INDIA AND TO TASTE ITS FREEDOM AND THE OPPORTUNITIES WE HAVE TO FIRST ENABLE THE BACKWARD PEOPLE TO ENJOY THE FREEDOM AND EQUALITY.BUT 1ST FOR THAT WE HAVE TO ENABLE THEM FIRST WITH THE PRIVILEGES THAT OUR FOREFATHERS STRIPPED FROM THEM.FOR THAT THEY HAVE TO BE GIVEN SPECIAL CHANCES SO THEY THAT CAN COME AT PAR WITH REST OF THE SOCIETY.AND 63yrs is not enough for the 1000yrs of cruelty that has resulted into a gap between them and the rest of the society.
Few years from now on, the reservation would no more be required. But till then stop hating people because of their caste.
SO ITS YOUR CHOICE WHETHER TO CHOOSE HATRED OR UNDERSTANDING.
?? ????? ?????????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ? ?? ????
Smrity now u can even see the division of india even in t debate…
This will going to happen if u all do the favour of the reservation and , will sure that this happens.
If reservation not ends
Sana .
If u have the brain , then should know that the no one 1000yr ago was in education stream except brahmins ohkay..
But now all indians are studying without any cast discrimination except u reserved quota people , and all cast except u reserved quotas got education after so hard work , we did’t get it like gift , we got it after ur urge to study, our parents studied even under street lights , For getting education
Okay ..
We achieve this by our hard work not by begging or creating trouble to other one’s .
though i m not an advocate to reservation but if politicians think it is an necessary then it shud be evenly distributed in all castes taking the benefit of it eg jatav in up r drawing maximum opportunities while harijans r still lagging
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if we destroy caste system,can castbased reservation exist?why brahman hav total reservation in mandir at post of priest?why not marry even outside subcaste?why brahman not give up janva(holy thread)?
all r stupids carrying that stupid book written by ambedkar remeber his birth & death days only b’cuse if they forgot they dont get reservations they r drgging india back pls leave make india grow
quota system is divide-and-rule policy’’, that it is an ‘‘injustice to merit’’ and that it is ‘‘all about vote bank politics.’’
it is really shameless that people get so blinded in shelfishness that they justify such castiest reservation policy.the only problem is that the generals are far fewer in numbers than the reservvved also their votes are much fewer .therefore to woo votee banks the politiccal class of india uses such divisive policcies.whenever resservvvation is being discussed,reserved categorry people say of the discrimination they faced in past people should understand that from 15th aug 1947 a new republic was born on the principles of equality,fraternity and freedom.there should be no place fffor soch divisive policiiies in it.as far as poverty os concerned,poor and rich classes belong to every caste and every community of the world no surprise that one cannot find even a single savarnsa cheif minister today.